WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.000 Why don't you please make me a picture of the audience. 00:10.000 --> 00:18.000 Come in fast, sophisticated, required. 00:18.000 --> 00:22.000 Press on a talk about IoT net building. 00:22.000 --> 00:24.000 Something. 00:24.000 --> 00:26.000 Yeah, exactly. 00:26.000 --> 00:27.000 Thank you. 00:27.000 --> 00:28.000 Perfect introduction. 00:28.000 --> 00:32.000 I am Pierre, I'm going with open modes. 00:32.000 --> 00:40.000 Last year we explained a bit about engaging residents in a residential area to try to solve congestion problems. 00:40.000 --> 00:42.000 I don't know if you were there. 00:42.000 --> 00:51.000 I'd like to follow up on that and explain what we did last year also linking to a project we're doing in the Hague with the state in which is another network operator. 00:51.000 --> 00:54.000 But first a bit about open modes. 00:54.000 --> 00:55.000 This should work. 00:55.000 --> 00:58.000 I don't think you have to tell us here. 00:58.000 --> 01:01.000 But we, in general, are building fully open source IoT platform. 01:01.000 --> 01:05.000 Which obviously means you need to connect to real systems in the real world. 01:05.000 --> 01:07.000 So I don't want to say all about it. 01:07.000 --> 01:13.000 And as we transfer everything we connect to is still there. 01:13.000 --> 01:14.000 No, the microphone. 01:14.000 --> 01:15.000 Oh, I told you. 01:19.000 --> 01:21.000 Oh, this. 01:22.000 --> 01:25.000 We translated it on convert. 01:25.000 --> 01:29.000 Everything we connect to what we call assets of different asset types. 01:29.000 --> 01:32.000 We have a model and that means you can add some intelligence to it. 01:32.000 --> 01:36.000 And either it can be, or I'll come to that in a second how you do it. 01:36.000 --> 01:39.000 And I'll do that. 01:43.000 --> 01:49.000 For front end users, we very much focus on them to be able to create specific applications. 01:49.000 --> 01:55.000 We spend a lot of effort not just on logic but also on on on the front end apps. 01:55.000 --> 01:57.000 Either for end user or consumers. 01:57.000 --> 01:59.000 We have a. 01:59.000 --> 02:03.000 Yeah, should I say that here we have 100% open source. 02:03.000 --> 02:06.000 But what I mean with it is we don't have different repositories. 02:06.000 --> 02:08.000 We just have one and it's used by anybody. 02:08.000 --> 02:09.000 So there's nothing. 02:09.000 --> 02:14.000 We do also for professional users, which is somewhere hidden in a closed. 02:14.000 --> 02:17.000 And the other thing to say. 02:18.000 --> 02:22.000 If we say that we intuitive, I think you the judge of that. 02:22.000 --> 02:23.000 But it's. 02:23.000 --> 02:26.000 It's we want to be completely transparent about it. 02:26.000 --> 02:27.000 There's a company behind it. 02:27.000 --> 02:31.000 So open mode is also company and that's the benefit that for professional users, which are mostly 02:31.000 --> 02:33.000 manufacturers of system integrators. 02:33.000 --> 02:38.000 We also offer the service to help them build their application on top of open mode. 02:38.000 --> 02:41.000 Yeah, this in just in brief. 02:41.000 --> 02:43.000 So tell a bit about the platform. 02:43.000 --> 02:45.000 I think this is your obvious part. 02:45.000 --> 02:48.000 So obviously to the links to the real world. 02:48.000 --> 02:52.000 We have APIs, but we also have different protocol agents raising from. 02:52.000 --> 02:55.000 We have an empty broker and a client. 02:55.000 --> 02:59.000 But we also can connect with HTTP or recently over lower one through 02:59.000 --> 03:02.000 Chub Stack or things stack. 03:02.000 --> 03:08.000 And within it, we have some ways to automate simple things which are completely. 03:08.000 --> 03:15.000 You why when then of flow rules, which you can also connect your own services nowadays. 03:15.000 --> 03:19.000 And we have published one services, which is a more advanced forecasting services. 03:19.000 --> 03:25.000 And some services are building like a map service and a notification service. 03:25.000 --> 03:30.000 And on the front end, we have a web components and the standard of the shelf. 03:30.000 --> 03:36.000 UIs are manager UIs, basically that's the access to this whole system. 03:36.000 --> 03:41.000 Plus we have a dashboard builder to build applications for mostly professional users. 03:41.000 --> 03:47.000 And for consumers, we have a web components where we build dedicated web apps. 03:47.000 --> 03:50.000 And we have both an iOS and Android console too. 03:50.000 --> 03:51.000 Yeah, do that quickly. 03:51.000 --> 03:54.000 If you're a font and developer, of course. 03:54.000 --> 03:59.000 Well, one more item relevant to say is that you can run open mode on premise locally. 03:59.000 --> 04:01.000 And then we have a tunneling option. 04:01.000 --> 04:03.000 And so that's for typically system integrators. 04:03.000 --> 04:06.000 We say I need remote access to an installation. 04:06.000 --> 04:16.000 And that can turn on to a local installation and get access to local systems. 04:16.000 --> 04:20.000 Recap on the last year or the share the last year. 04:20.000 --> 04:22.000 We call it our grid. 04:22.000 --> 04:25.000 And it's a way to optimize, look at energy optimization. 04:25.000 --> 04:29.000 We extended it just not only from Amsterdam, but also doing it in our name, 04:29.000 --> 04:32.000 which is not a Dutch city together with all the other. 04:32.000 --> 04:35.000 One of the three bigger DSOs in the Netherlands. 04:35.000 --> 04:39.000 And what we're doing is trying to visualize it in this picture. 04:39.000 --> 04:42.000 So this is the app for residents. 04:42.000 --> 04:48.000 And the right screenshot is when there's nothing wrong with the grid. 04:48.000 --> 04:52.000 There's no overcapacity or there's no grid congestion problems. 04:52.000 --> 04:57.000 And users would have a real time inside in a power consumption second inside. 04:57.000 --> 05:01.000 And the fact that the background here is green means there's nothing wrong. 05:01.000 --> 05:04.000 No problems with the grid. 05:04.000 --> 05:07.000 And the same is representate here in this graph. 05:07.000 --> 05:09.000 But you also see some red backgrounds. 05:09.000 --> 05:15.000 And the red backgrounds is actually when we have had or expect congestion problems. 05:15.000 --> 05:21.000 And the way we do it is we forecast as we have a link to all these individual users in a district. 05:21.000 --> 05:24.000 And they have a tunnel in their smart meter. 05:25.000 --> 05:28.000 We can actually aggravate the data and also do forecasting. 05:28.000 --> 05:33.000 So we can forecast together with the network operator, whether there will be grid congestion issues or not. 05:33.000 --> 05:39.000 And if those happen, people get a push notification 50 minutes ahead. 05:39.000 --> 05:44.000 So just a choice to say 50 minutes is still allowed you to act. 05:44.000 --> 05:50.000 And last year we shared that then they get this view on the left this one. 05:50.000 --> 05:53.000 And they requested to join a challenge. 05:53.000 --> 05:54.000 And it's a challenge. 05:54.000 --> 05:56.000 We'll meaning if they join, that's the button here. 05:56.000 --> 05:58.000 They go to the middle screen. 05:58.000 --> 06:03.000 And for an hour they get a power target, personal power target. 06:03.000 --> 06:06.000 And if they meet the target, they can earn 10 points maximum. 06:06.000 --> 06:08.000 And the points have an exchange rate. 06:08.000 --> 06:12.000 So they actually get some payment at the end of the year to give you an indication. 06:12.000 --> 06:18.000 It ranges from 33 cents to 120 euro on a typically. 06:18.000 --> 06:24.000 So what are results part of it we shared last year? 06:24.000 --> 06:33.000 So until now it was or last year we shared purely manual impact of users or manual actions by users. 06:33.000 --> 06:36.000 We now have in two districts. 06:36.000 --> 06:40.000 165 participants about of course, which means active users. 06:40.000 --> 06:44.000 So people who press buttons and act on request. 06:44.000 --> 06:48.000 But we've also and that we did last year is we added automation. 06:48.000 --> 06:53.000 So we took the step to let's automate this because obviously you don't keep on manually pressing buttons. 06:53.000 --> 06:58.000 And the only reason we did it initially is because we want to engage as many people as possible. 06:58.000 --> 07:02.000 There are a lot of people in districts we don't even know how to automate anything. 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 So we want to include everybody. 07:04.000 --> 07:08.000 And that's how we got to the 165 participants. 07:08.000 --> 07:12.000 And now gradually we're adding automation and we do it in three ways. 07:13.000 --> 07:16.000 Users can link their own home automation system. 07:16.000 --> 07:19.000 So either home assistance or open app. 07:19.000 --> 07:24.000 Or they can connect a vehicle, the charging session. 07:24.000 --> 07:27.000 And they can connect batteries. 07:27.000 --> 07:29.000 And this is the battery. 07:29.000 --> 07:34.000 So this is coming through a subsidy of all the only in this case in these two districts. 07:34.000 --> 07:37.000 They give a subsidies so people can buy this battery. 07:37.000 --> 07:40.000 Plug and play battery at a lower price than normal. 07:41.000 --> 07:47.000 And when there's congestion problem, the battery will start discharging to help out. 07:50.000 --> 07:53.000 This is the integration with home assistance and open app. 07:53.000 --> 07:59.000 The clear difference is here is that you pick up digitally the signal that there is a challenge. 07:59.000 --> 08:03.000 But you decide yourself, of course, how you fulfill the target. 08:03.000 --> 08:06.000 The strategy on what to optimize what to stop or what to start. 08:07.000 --> 08:13.000 That's up to you and to you to program that in either home assistance or in open app. 08:13.000 --> 08:17.000 That's a bit different with when you connect your vehicle, when you connect your vehicle, 08:17.000 --> 08:22.000 when we detect that you're actually charging at that moment to be paused the charging. 08:22.000 --> 08:27.000 So we paused for that period and afterwards we started charging again. 08:27.000 --> 08:29.000 And of course, you can opt out. 08:29.000 --> 08:31.000 So we don't want it in a specific instance. 08:31.000 --> 08:35.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I need a charge. 08:35.000 --> 08:38.000 So we've resolved. 08:38.000 --> 08:42.000 Last year we shared the fact that we got purely on manual interventions. 08:42.000 --> 08:44.000 So people only manually changing things. 08:44.000 --> 08:51.000 We could prove that we were able to reduce the peaks with about eight kilo watt, 08:51.000 --> 08:53.000 which doesn't sound much. 08:53.000 --> 08:57.000 But the fact that it's purely manual and amount of participants was already quite impressive. 08:57.000 --> 09:02.000 So you know, let's continue this because this manually continuously people pressing buttons. 09:02.000 --> 09:05.000 The only thing we we saw here. 09:05.000 --> 09:10.000 But with the automation and it's a bit early to really quantify it now. 09:10.000 --> 09:13.000 We have reached around 30 kilowatt reduction. 09:13.000 --> 09:18.000 But there's something else happening is that we see because we of course been monitoring it. 09:18.000 --> 09:24.000 That people who were charging have shifted their charging sessions structurally outside these speakers. 09:24.000 --> 09:28.000 So they're moving to daytime or at midnight and actually seeing peaks at midnight. 09:28.000 --> 09:37.000 A lot of people are charging at two to midnight, which wasn't the case here we go. 09:37.000 --> 09:43.000 Which brings me to what the title set is to another project which builds on what we've done. 09:43.000 --> 09:49.000 And this is called a smart beach or a slim strum net in Dutch, which is in the Hague and this project was stayed in. 09:49.000 --> 09:52.000 So there are other diesel in the mountains. 09:52.000 --> 09:55.000 And the difference is here is that actually two difference here. 09:55.000 --> 09:59.000 First of all, it's a district with beach civilians. 09:59.000 --> 10:02.000 So we call them houses but actually not. 10:02.000 --> 10:09.000 Beach civilians, the border or the Saudi harbour, police, government building. 10:09.000 --> 10:11.000 But you also have shared assets. 10:11.000 --> 10:14.000 So not these panels because that's not a lot. 10:14.000 --> 10:19.000 But there's a 90 kilowatt peak solar farm in the harbour. 10:19.000 --> 10:24.000 And there is a battery shared battery with the cooperation. 10:24.000 --> 10:29.000 But the corporate cooperation only has also has its own electricity grid. 10:29.000 --> 10:35.000 So they collectively have a contract with the energy provider as well. 10:35.000 --> 10:38.000 So what does it mean? 10:38.000 --> 10:40.000 It's similar as before. 10:40.000 --> 10:44.000 This is really an area where the squid and jussian problems. 10:44.000 --> 10:52.000 So what we've done here is for those who know the gopax is the Dutch congestion market. 10:52.000 --> 10:59.000 So the Hague and the cooperation have signed a contract with stayed in with the dynamic capacity base contract. 10:59.000 --> 11:05.000 And we've connected it over gopax so we can handle capacity request. 11:05.000 --> 11:08.000 And we make the translation sometimes to challenges. 11:08.000 --> 11:11.000 So the average user has no clue what you're talking about. 11:11.000 --> 11:16.000 If you talk about gopax or congestion or dynamic capacity base contracts. 11:16.000 --> 11:20.000 So we make the translation to the similar kind of challenges we showed before. 11:20.000 --> 11:25.000 And on top of it, as there's a collective energy contract. 11:25.000 --> 11:29.000 What we do is, and we do it for again an open source service. 11:29.000 --> 11:32.000 So we added the forecasting service to open mode. 11:32.000 --> 11:38.000 And that forecasting service we can use to also forecast the apex spot prices. 11:38.000 --> 11:39.000 And why do we need it? 11:39.000 --> 11:45.000 Because where that we can also schedule the flexible assets in the district. 11:45.000 --> 11:48.000 And where that we can give the forecast to the energy provider. 11:48.000 --> 11:58.000 And that the consequence of that is that we can all the Hague or the energy cooperative can sign an energy contract without any imbalance costs. 11:58.000 --> 12:00.000 So that's obviously very attractive. 12:00.000 --> 12:06.000 Without any not saying any very limited balance costs. 12:06.000 --> 12:08.000 So how does that look? 12:08.000 --> 12:15.000 If I look at this picture, the blue lines and the top and the bottom are actually the capacity limits. 12:15.000 --> 12:23.000 And on the top side you see that it drops somewhere and the right side, which is between seven and eight you can't see that. 12:23.000 --> 12:25.000 This is an experiment, of course. 12:25.000 --> 12:27.000 It drops it to 10 kilowatts. 12:27.000 --> 12:30.000 But also the feeding was reduced to 10. 12:30.000 --> 12:37.000 And you see that the green line, which is the net power consumption on the Slimstown net. 12:37.000 --> 12:41.000 It's actually staying within this small bandwidth. 12:41.000 --> 12:45.000 What does it do it by controlling the flex to the orange line? 12:45.000 --> 12:50.000 It's the orange line is the flexibility. 12:50.000 --> 12:52.000 The biggest part of that is that battery. 12:52.000 --> 12:55.000 It's not the only part that's also charges. 12:55.000 --> 13:03.000 And the battery starts, of course, discharging to mostly discharging to stay within the blue lines. 13:03.000 --> 13:10.000 And the other thing you see is on the left here, a small period where this charges. 13:10.000 --> 13:13.000 And why is that? Because that moment the prices are high. 13:13.000 --> 13:15.000 And it still has capacity left. 13:15.000 --> 13:18.000 So it still has capacity left for doing this. 13:18.000 --> 13:23.000 And it knows. So we say, oh, I'll charge here a bit because I kind of earn a bit extra here. 13:23.000 --> 13:29.000 So that's a practical case how it works. 13:29.000 --> 13:33.000 And the obvious question is then what's next? 13:33.000 --> 13:38.000 So I don't have to explain this picture. I'm sure you've seen this multiple times today. 13:38.000 --> 13:43.000 Yes? So we always look at this picture. 13:43.000 --> 13:46.000 But we forgot about this picture. 13:46.000 --> 13:49.000 And the only thing would change instead of time. 13:49.000 --> 13:51.000 It's a January and summer and winter. 13:51.000 --> 13:55.000 And there's another problem we have with the energy balance. 13:55.000 --> 14:01.000 So what we're now looking into is look at a longer term storage of electricity. 14:01.000 --> 14:03.000 And then in a smart way integrated as well. 14:03.000 --> 14:08.000 And it's not as easy as just summer winter because also then the evening and day peak. 14:08.000 --> 14:11.000 You have to combine the two. 14:11.000 --> 14:13.000 So that's what we're doing and we're doing it. 14:13.000 --> 14:16.000 We're looking into a heat storage. 14:16.000 --> 14:20.000 So ways to convert electricity into heat. 14:20.000 --> 14:24.000 And basically, let's say, stored in concrete, not concrete. 14:24.000 --> 14:28.000 And then you can have a real long term energy storage. 14:28.000 --> 14:32.000 Probably at a quite cost-effective way. 14:33.000 --> 14:37.000 Though that's in with the 10 minutes lift on 9. 14:37.000 --> 14:39.000 What I wanted to talk about is short. 14:39.000 --> 14:42.000 We had a booth here and the same building. 14:42.000 --> 14:48.000 So if you want to know more, you're welcome anyhow to come and visit us and we can explain more. 14:48.000 --> 14:51.000 But there's some time for questions, I think. 14:51.000 --> 14:55.000 Yes? Any questions? 14:56.000 --> 15:00.000 As an understanding, you're most of the software company. 15:00.000 --> 15:03.000 And in the last slide, you said, like, we're looking into heat storage. 15:03.000 --> 15:07.000 Are you then looking into the setting of the hardware for that? 15:07.000 --> 15:11.000 Or are you just lost about how to predict the management research? 15:11.000 --> 15:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 15:12.000 --> 15:16.000 So your questions are we now also use more software companies? 15:16.000 --> 15:17.000 Yes. 15:17.000 --> 15:19.000 As we're also looking into hardware. 15:19.000 --> 15:23.000 If you talk about an energy management system, first of all, it's both. 15:23.000 --> 15:24.000 Not one or the others. 15:24.000 --> 15:26.000 If you want to solve the whole puzzle, you need both. 15:26.000 --> 15:33.000 But our users are system integrators or manufacturers equipment manufacturers. 15:33.000 --> 15:36.000 So in this case, we're working with a system integrator together with the cooperative. 15:36.000 --> 15:41.000 And they, of course, are analyzing what are the best solutions to use here. 15:41.000 --> 15:45.000 But as from the software side, of course, we need to know, 15:45.000 --> 15:47.000 okay, what's the strategy to optimize that? 15:47.000 --> 15:49.000 So that's where we are involved. 15:49.000 --> 15:51.000 We don't do our work. 15:53.000 --> 15:56.000 Yeah. 15:56.000 --> 15:57.000 Yeah. 15:57.000 --> 15:58.000 Yeah. 15:58.000 --> 16:10.000 So if you look at the repository, we have a forecasting service. 16:10.000 --> 16:14.000 And the forecasting service is a generic forecasting model. 16:14.000 --> 16:21.000 So we started doing just profit, which some of you probably know is a way of forecasting. 16:21.000 --> 16:23.000 It seems to be already quite accurate. 16:23.000 --> 16:28.000 With the big standing that service to also add gradient-based modeling. 16:28.000 --> 16:35.000 For example, but that's a generic service, which you can use for any application and open mode. 16:35.000 --> 16:37.000 And for example, we configure it. 16:37.000 --> 16:40.000 Let's do the apex forecasting. 16:40.000 --> 16:44.000 And just define the regress as we need and see whether it's forecast well. 16:44.000 --> 16:48.000 Which you can also use it to say, well, I want to forecast the package, 16:48.000 --> 16:51.000 and see it's probably related to a amount of rain and temperature. 16:51.000 --> 16:54.000 And day of the week. 17:02.000 --> 17:03.000 Yep. 17:06.000 --> 17:08.000 Yeah. So your question. 17:08.000 --> 17:12.000 So what's the storage you talked about the storage? 17:12.000 --> 17:13.000 What is it about? 17:13.000 --> 17:16.000 We don't do hardware as to your question. 17:17.000 --> 17:21.000 It's the government they tendering now in an off-the-standard to say, 17:21.000 --> 17:28.000 there are solutions in the market to do this with sand or concrete or basalt or sold or. 17:28.000 --> 17:37.000 So it's going to be tendered to come first with an off-the-standard to see what the final solution would be. 17:37.000 --> 17:41.000 But the data feasibility study that they think it's feasible. 17:41.000 --> 17:44.000 So we'll wait and see. 17:47.000 --> 17:50.000 I think there was one more question. 18:04.000 --> 18:07.000 And no, we do it on on two levels if that's the question. 18:07.000 --> 18:11.000 So on the let's say the cooperative level or the residential area, 18:11.000 --> 18:16.000 we look at an optimization because it's the shared conflict, 18:16.000 --> 18:18.000 for example, the energy contract that's a collective one. 18:18.000 --> 18:21.000 But those sort of congestion is a collective under the, 18:21.000 --> 18:25.000 in this case, the low voltage transformer. 18:25.000 --> 18:30.000 But what we do internally is also translate to individual assets or, 18:30.000 --> 18:32.000 or let's call residents. 18:32.000 --> 18:34.000 And they would trigger on the price. 18:34.000 --> 18:36.000 So they would trigger on individual price. 18:36.000 --> 18:39.000 But they get an additional incentive, for example, 18:39.000 --> 18:42.000 if it's beneficial for the whole grid. 18:42.000 --> 18:45.000 And we have a way of translating it. 18:45.000 --> 18:49.000 So let's say we have an EMS on the cooperation level, 18:49.000 --> 18:52.000 but we have an EMS on individual level as well. 18:57.000 --> 18:59.000 Yes. So also your question was, 18:59.000 --> 19:04.000 can an individual households decide where they want to join on us or participate 19:04.000 --> 19:07.000 in the central energy optimization? 19:10.000 --> 19:12.000 Yeah. 19:12.000 --> 19:14.000 So the EMS on the, 19:14.000 --> 19:15.000 can you join on not yet? 19:15.000 --> 19:16.000 Yes. So in the, 19:16.000 --> 19:17.000 the app I showed, 19:17.000 --> 19:18.000 it went too quick. 19:18.000 --> 19:19.000 There's opt in and opt out. 19:19.000 --> 19:20.000 So you can decide, 19:20.000 --> 19:22.000 do I want all the made or not? 19:22.000 --> 19:25.000 How do I want to automate and react? 19:25.000 --> 19:29.000 But also from the incentive model you can choose, 19:29.000 --> 19:30.000 or you should be able to choose, 19:30.000 --> 19:32.000 but I know the grid problem, 19:32.000 --> 19:36.000 but I prefer to optimize on my individual solar. 19:40.000 --> 19:42.000 Yeah, yeah, behind the means of both. 19:42.000 --> 19:43.000 Yes. 19:43.000 --> 19:46.000 It was one first there. 19:46.000 --> 19:47.000 Yeah. 19:47.000 --> 19:51.000 Yeah. 19:51.000 --> 19:52.000 Yep. 19:58.000 --> 20:00.000 Yeah. So your questions, 20:00.000 --> 20:01.000 we say that we, 20:01.000 --> 20:03.000 there was exchange rate with the points, 20:03.000 --> 20:05.000 so people actually get money. 20:05.000 --> 20:07.000 No. 20:08.000 --> 20:10.000 Sorry for that. 20:10.000 --> 20:11.000 Yeah. 20:11.000 --> 20:13.000 So how it's financially done is that, 20:13.000 --> 20:15.000 of course, 20:15.000 --> 20:17.000 according to the law that we don't have dynamic tariffs, 20:17.000 --> 20:18.000 so the grid, 20:18.000 --> 20:20.000 the network operator count, 20:20.000 --> 20:23.000 directly incentivize because we don't have the moles for that, 20:23.000 --> 20:25.000 but the way we do it now, 20:25.000 --> 20:28.000 you have a budget per district, 20:28.000 --> 20:31.000 and the budget is paid by the network operator, 20:31.000 --> 20:34.000 and we basically divided by the number of earned points. 20:34.000 --> 20:36.000 And that's exchange rate, 20:36.000 --> 20:38.000 and times the number of points, 20:38.000 --> 20:39.000 and that's what you get paid out, 20:39.000 --> 20:41.000 and it's paid out by the project. 20:41.000 --> 20:43.000 So there's a project team, 20:43.000 --> 20:45.000 which consists of the government, 20:45.000 --> 20:46.000 the city itself, 20:46.000 --> 20:48.000 and still have more on them, 20:48.000 --> 20:49.000 plus the other partners, 20:49.000 --> 20:52.000 and they pay out to the residents. 20:52.000 --> 20:55.000 Protects. 20:55.000 --> 20:57.000 As a consumer, 20:57.000 --> 20:58.000 you get money, 20:58.000 --> 21:00.000 how does it improve? 21:01.000 --> 21:02.000 Yeah. 21:13.000 --> 21:15.000 Yeah, it's a good question. 21:15.000 --> 21:17.000 So what's the impact on personal income, 21:17.000 --> 21:18.000 or taxing, 21:18.000 --> 21:21.000 or this sounds like poor answer I don't know, 21:21.000 --> 21:23.000 so I guess it's income, 21:23.000 --> 21:26.000 so you would have to register it. 21:26.000 --> 21:28.000 But it are not large amounts, 21:29.000 --> 21:31.000 yeah, a good fair question. 21:31.000 --> 21:33.000 It needs a structural solution, 21:33.000 --> 21:34.000 of course, 21:34.000 --> 21:37.000 this is an experiment to see where it can work on it. 21:37.000 --> 21:41.000 So it's not a complete answer or an question. 21:41.000 --> 21:43.000 You add a question. 21:43.000 --> 21:45.000 Yeah, for the communications, 21:45.000 --> 21:49.000 so between your service sites, 21:49.000 --> 21:52.000 data and the community level data, 21:52.000 --> 21:54.000 and your local assets, 21:55.000 --> 21:56.000 and your service standards, 21:56.000 --> 21:58.000 that you're following on their own. 21:58.000 --> 21:59.000 Yeah, 21:59.000 --> 22:01.000 we remember this last year, 22:01.000 --> 22:04.000 we were behind the talk about S2 standard, 22:04.000 --> 22:07.000 and I forgot a guy's name, 22:07.000 --> 22:08.000 but he's mentioned, 22:08.000 --> 22:09.000 yes, 22:09.000 --> 22:11.000 we introducing the 12 standard, 22:11.000 --> 22:15.000 and we follow a standard if there is one. 22:15.000 --> 22:18.000 We know the finest standard, 22:18.000 --> 22:21.000 beginning involved in asked about, 22:21.000 --> 22:22.000 what would be a good standard, 22:22.000 --> 22:25.000 but we know not the ones to set the standard, 22:25.000 --> 22:26.000 and they're not many, 22:26.000 --> 22:28.000 that's actually a problem, 22:28.000 --> 22:29.000 so there's a lot of initiatives, 22:29.000 --> 22:32.000 of course, to try and standardize this. 22:32.000 --> 22:33.000 Yeah, 22:33.000 --> 22:34.000 and all kinds of reasons, 22:34.000 --> 22:36.000 of course, by companies don't want the standard, 22:36.000 --> 22:38.000 some of them. 22:42.000 --> 22:47.000 Then there was one more, I thought, 22:52.000 --> 22:57.000 thank you. 23:22.000 --> 23:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 23:52.000 --> 23:53.600 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah