WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.880 The tooling and how to use them, and that might be overwhelming for users and users and people 00:10.880 --> 00:16.640 new to that stuff, Ryan will talk about how that might be made easier for the community. 00:16.640 --> 00:17.640 Thank you. 00:17.640 --> 00:20.440 Yeah, there's been a lot of nutrition, it feels like doing the presentation in the morning 00:20.440 --> 00:23.640 is the right one to do, but there's the recordings I suppose as well. 00:23.640 --> 00:29.920 So you've heard a lot about the variety of tools today, I think there was. 00:30.400 --> 00:38.920 Aki Dr. EOS, they're one by TNO, SM, as pipes that are very good, there's variety of tools 00:38.920 --> 00:43.000 that you've heard today, and maybe about five or six different tools, and they probably 00:43.000 --> 00:49.840 constitute on the order of about 200 open-source energy system modeling tools, being really, 00:49.840 --> 00:55.560 really specific here, these are tools for infrastructure planning and operation, open-source 00:55.560 --> 00:58.160 that we know about. 00:58.160 --> 01:02.800 And it means that it's a real big problem to keep track of the tools that are available, 01:02.800 --> 01:05.640 unless you come to every single possible conference for people that are talking about these 01:05.640 --> 01:11.360 things, and maybe you'll pick up one or two each time, or you read review papers, because 01:11.360 --> 01:15.800 actually things often come from the academic literature, or academic community, these 01:15.800 --> 01:18.200 things often developed in academia. 01:18.200 --> 01:23.600 And so you could go back, you could read a review, pretty much every single year, there 01:23.600 --> 01:28.720 will be a review about the latest developments in open-source, or just general energy system 01:28.720 --> 01:35.000 modeling, maybe even in 2022, there was about five or six reviews that came out in the same 01:35.000 --> 01:41.160 journal, that we're all about, what are the latest developments in energy system modeling 01:41.160 --> 01:46.840 in the tools available, and it's effectively a losing battle, because you read these, 01:46.840 --> 01:51.240 you might get the latest developments in the tools that they know are available, they might 01:51.320 --> 01:57.800 grab about 100 maximum of the 200 of there, and they are also probably about two or three 01:57.800 --> 01:59.880 years old by the time you read this paper, right? 01:59.880 --> 02:04.000 So they've started their reviews a PhD student probably, they've taken some time doing 02:04.000 --> 02:09.160 the review, they actually literally, the academic review process, the peer review process, 02:09.160 --> 02:13.280 and then you read it a few years later, and inevitably they go a lot of things wrong. 02:13.280 --> 02:19.040 So I've been a lead developer of one of these 200 tools for about nine years, and I can 02:19.040 --> 02:22.760 tell you, every time I read one of these, they've always got something wrong about what 02:22.760 --> 02:28.520 my tool can do, because they are reading it from an external perspective, and maybe that's 02:28.520 --> 02:33.240 a sign of me and my documentation, but it's true for a lot of the other tools as well 02:33.240 --> 02:35.560 that I know about. 02:35.560 --> 02:39.520 So this is where it comes in a project that we've been undertaking at the Open Energy 02:39.520 --> 02:44.840 Transition, with support from breakthrough energy, grids initiative, to map all of these 02:44.840 --> 02:50.320 tools that are available in a fashion that will stay up to date continuously. 02:50.320 --> 02:55.360 So what you see here is a snapshot of the latest update, it's a monthly update we get, 02:55.360 --> 03:01.800 so this is the January update in terms of a snapshot of the top sort of 15 or so tools of 03:01.800 --> 03:06.920 these 210, and we've got in the inventory. 03:06.920 --> 03:12.920 I can show you, I hope, what that looks like in a bit more detail here, so this is, this 03:12.920 --> 03:19.040 is, it live at OpenMod-Tracker.org, and we've got a couple of caveats at the start, so 03:19.040 --> 03:22.640 I want to be very clear, we believe we're catching most of the open source tools that 03:22.640 --> 03:27.440 are out there, we've probably aren't catching them all, and don't blame us for the data 03:27.440 --> 03:31.840 associated with your tool, right, that's what I'll tell you in a minute, we get most of 03:31.840 --> 03:33.880 this data from elsewhere. 03:33.880 --> 03:39.880 So you've got the table here, I've got a couple of different pieces of information that 03:39.880 --> 03:42.680 might be useful to you, when you come and look at it, you've got the link to the source 03:42.680 --> 03:49.440 code, so all of these have to have openly available, publicly available, source code, 03:49.440 --> 03:57.000 you can get a link to the documentation, and we have a link to all but 60 or so tools documentation. 03:57.000 --> 04:01.120 So this is a really good resource, if you just want to find out how to use a tool, I think 04:01.120 --> 04:05.880 we do a better job than the readmees of most of the repositories of telling you where 04:05.880 --> 04:07.440 their documentation is. 04:07.440 --> 04:13.040 So check that out, and then a variety of metrics associated with the source code repositories 04:13.040 --> 04:18.080 for these tools, so things like when was it created, when was it most recently updated, 04:18.080 --> 04:22.160 how many stars does it have, this is ordered by stars at the moment. 04:22.160 --> 04:28.440 Number of contributors and the development distribution score, I believe was developed in 04:28.440 --> 04:33.200 open sustained tech, and both of those really are sort of a bus factor, it's trying 04:33.200 --> 04:38.280 to tell you, if there's one or two developers and a really, really low DDS, it's telling 04:38.280 --> 04:43.160 you that if they go out of action, they choose to leave the industry, that entire project 04:43.160 --> 04:44.960 will probably die with them. 04:44.960 --> 04:48.480 So you want lots of contributors, you want a high DDS, you want a lot of force, you want 04:48.480 --> 04:52.920 people interacting with it in lots of different ways, and you want to know how often 04:52.920 --> 04:56.640 it's downloaded, and that's a difficult one because we can only get that for verifiable 04:56.640 --> 05:01.680 downloads, things that are indexed on package indexes, usually price and packages, is what 05:01.680 --> 05:05.520 that's possible for, and a couple of other data sets as well. 05:05.520 --> 05:09.440 You can do things like filter, you can say, well, I only want to see ones that have documentation, 05:09.440 --> 05:14.880 maybe ones that are at least five or six years old, I want to have a bit of pedigree, 05:14.880 --> 05:19.120 maybe you want ones that have a certain number of stars associated with them, so you can 05:19.120 --> 05:23.960 do a variety of filtering actions to take you through and really filter down on the tools 05:23.960 --> 05:27.720 that might be of interest to you for whatever project you might be doing, whether that's 05:27.720 --> 05:31.760 as a user, a potential user for a tool, or a potential developer, some of the joining 05:31.760 --> 05:37.520 of the development community for a tool, there's a lot of possibilities there. 05:37.520 --> 05:41.400 You can also deep dive into a few other things, so we've tried to capture all of the users 05:41.400 --> 05:47.560 of these tools across GitHub and GitLab, if they're on those ones, and try to classify 05:47.560 --> 05:51.640 them to get an impression of the types of users of these tools, the people are interacting 05:51.640 --> 05:53.040 with these repositories. 05:53.040 --> 05:54.520 We don't do that in quite a job, right? 05:54.520 --> 05:59.280 So about 65% of the users on GitHub who interact with these tools, of the 50,000 or so 05:59.280 --> 06:04.360 that we're picking up at 16,000 now, we don't get about 65% of them, that's because it's 06:04.360 --> 06:09.320 just that GitHub username and no other information, and we can't help to do any better 06:09.320 --> 06:10.320 than that. 06:10.320 --> 06:14.160 But of those who do interact, we get a lot of people from the academic community, small 06:14.160 --> 06:18.720 for you, if you go through the actual thing, you can have a look at any more detail, academic 06:18.720 --> 06:23.520 community, research organisations, professionals, and industry, they're all interacting 06:23.560 --> 06:25.320 in various ways. 06:25.320 --> 06:32.320 We can look at which organisations they are, NREL now, the National Lab of the Rockies, I think, 06:32.320 --> 06:33.800 is a big one. 06:33.800 --> 06:39.240 We open energy transition and also a big one, a variety of other ones, so you've got things 06:39.240 --> 06:43.320 like Chinese universities or US universities. 06:43.320 --> 06:47.680 You can look at this on a two levels, that was for all tools, I'm just going to look at 06:47.680 --> 06:50.880 one of them here, maybe very good isn't here, that would get very good. 06:50.880 --> 06:56.600 So this is really picking on you, but you come to mind, and we can see various organisations 06:56.600 --> 07:00.720 who've got involved, various countries where the users get involved, so you can see the 07:00.720 --> 07:03.680 international sort of community that might be involved with it. 07:03.680 --> 07:07.840 You can maybe look at another one on side, we have pipes afterwards, so we can add 07:07.840 --> 07:13.760 that in, we can see across those two tools, the global reach in terms of the kinds of users 07:13.760 --> 07:17.800 are getting involved, at least the ones we know about, that 35%. 07:17.800 --> 07:20.760 And we can look at the project development metrics, so we can say, okay, for these 07:20.760 --> 07:25.920 projects, some information about their development cadence, how are they, are they waxing? 07:25.920 --> 07:30.440 Are they waning in terms of their level of development, pull requests, issues being opened, 07:30.440 --> 07:35.520 who are the top contributors, across these, this is the top contributions across all of 07:35.520 --> 07:40.840 the projects, who are the top organisations, and in what way do they contribute? 07:40.840 --> 07:44.320 Do they contribute in terms of opening issues, do they contribute in terms of reviewing 07:44.320 --> 07:50.560 or giving feedback, and what is the type of feedback we're getting? 07:50.560 --> 07:55.240 So times closed issues, time to merge, pull requests, all these information for understanding 07:55.240 --> 07:59.400 how well a project is running, and how much engagement is happening during resolution, 07:59.400 --> 08:01.200 is there good feedback on reviews? 08:01.200 --> 08:05.560 Can you trust the review process, is there enough feedback on it from that perspective? 08:05.560 --> 08:10.120 So all of this is possible from this dashboard that we've created in order to help people 08:10.120 --> 08:17.960 understand the future of energy system modeling or where they might want to go. 08:17.960 --> 08:24.480 So what we do is we have to kind of herd cats to achieve this, we go to a variety of upstream 08:24.480 --> 08:31.080 inventories of these kinds of tools, and we grab them all in order to pull together all 08:31.080 --> 08:33.080 of the tools that we bring. 08:33.080 --> 08:38.240 So we know of these, if you know of more, really happy to know about them, we want to 08:38.240 --> 08:42.520 pull in as many as we can, and we do some triage kind of, we remove duplicates, we filter 08:42.520 --> 08:47.560 things out, exclude some tools that we just know for sure, repositories that we know 08:47.560 --> 08:50.960 for sure are not energy system modeling tools, but they've made their way through to these 08:50.960 --> 08:58.920 upstream inventories, and they also have to have open and public source code repositories 08:58.920 --> 09:07.000 and public licenses, like permissive or copy left licenses, usually. 09:07.000 --> 09:10.840 We tend to find that actually our just getting stuff from academic reviews and building 09:10.840 --> 09:15.320 a manual data set as the best of all of them in terms of unique tools that you don't find 09:15.320 --> 09:20.520 anywhere else, and some inventories don't provide any new tools to the mix, so they have 09:20.520 --> 09:24.120 tools that they've mentioned elsewhere as well, so they don't actually add any new information 09:24.120 --> 09:26.680 for us. 09:26.680 --> 09:31.720 We bring this together with the ecosystem's API, and I'm sure Andrew, and this bit, I think 09:31.720 --> 09:35.560 it is, well, it's probably somewhere, at Fast Stand this weekend, and you should really 09:35.560 --> 09:39.880 find them if you can, because ecosystems are great API, to take you to make you something 09:39.880 --> 09:44.360 with your all of our metrics, and there you can also blame them when the information looks 09:44.360 --> 09:48.280 weird, because we aren't really, we're not doctoring that information, we take it and we just 09:48.280 --> 09:54.520 show it as it's, we also do some scraping to try and find the doctor's pages in a bit more 09:54.520 --> 09:59.720 detail, because we don't get that well from elsewhere. That gives us some stats, and then we go 09:59.720 --> 10:04.920 directly to some diary APIs for GitHub and GitHub, and that gives us the information about our 10:04.920 --> 10:11.880 users and about the repository's interactions over time. This is all run in about an hour and 10:11.880 --> 10:19.160 20 minutes in a GitHub CI, the time is mostly in this GitHub and GitLab API requests, but we run 10:19.160 --> 10:23.160 that just automatically, it's sort of set and forget now that it should happen monthly, 10:23.160 --> 10:27.480 I say that, but the last one failed and I had to fix some bugs, but in theory it should run 10:27.480 --> 10:33.640 set and forget, so instead of you having to wait for the next review next year on the tools that 10:33.640 --> 10:37.720 are available that comes out of academia, you can check this dashboard instead. 10:39.960 --> 10:45.400 So why might you use it? Who's going to it? And we are the open energy transition, we've got 10:45.400 --> 10:52.040 sort of a mission a vision to make open source the norm in energy system planning by 2028. That 10:52.040 --> 10:56.440 means going to energy system operators, transmission system operators, and working with them 10:56.440 --> 11:01.080 to move them away from proprietary tools, using open source tools for their energy planning. 11:01.720 --> 11:06.120 That's our entire goal. And that means helping them understand what are the open source 11:06.120 --> 11:10.840 tools that are available and which ones might be most appropriate to them for a given use case. 11:12.040 --> 11:18.920 And we do this by helping them with the tracker here to produce a long list of possible tools 11:18.920 --> 11:25.640 for them and then we deep dive, we let them deep dive if they want to, into more information 11:25.640 --> 11:30.840 about those tools. You can't hope to look at 200 tools, but you might be able to look at 11:31.080 --> 11:38.360 10 or so. And that helps you create a short list. So with one client recently, back in August, 11:38.360 --> 11:42.760 we started some things, we just had some really broad brush things that has to be documentation. 11:42.760 --> 11:46.840 You know, it has to be easy for them if we hand over the tool to the model to them, 11:46.840 --> 11:50.280 they have to have documentation, they can't rely on us, they have to rely on the tool itself. 11:50.920 --> 11:57.160 It should have an index package. The maintainers should care enough about being easy to download 11:57.160 --> 12:02.680 cross-platform. And usually that means having a downloadable index package and so some monthly 12:02.680 --> 12:08.280 download stats that we can grab. When you have to compile things and you are talking to somebody 12:08.280 --> 12:14.280 who's limited them from a technical knowledge, it's usually Excel on Windows, you have to work 12:14.280 --> 12:19.640 with that, not against it. And things like permissive source code licenses so that if they 12:19.640 --> 12:24.200 internally have a tech team that wants to make some updates, they're not going to be limited by that. 12:24.200 --> 12:30.200 In this case, we also included copyreft. We have one column that is manually prepared because we 12:30.200 --> 12:35.800 got some information on the top 30 or so tools about what kind of modeling can you do. So you can 12:35.800 --> 12:39.640 get some really high-level information about the kind of energy that's just modeling you can do 12:39.640 --> 12:46.600 and you can use that for filtering as well. I should say, so Pythso came up in the earlier 12:46.600 --> 12:50.920 conversation, they do rank the highest on a lot of things production cost modeling. When I mentioned 12:51.000 --> 12:55.000 that I'm in lead down to the tool for the last nine years, it's not Pythso. So it's always 12:55.000 --> 12:59.240 quite galling to talk to clients and be like, actually the tool that's looking best here for you 12:59.240 --> 13:05.560 is Pythso. I kind of just have to say that with a straight face and let it lie. There are other tools 13:05.560 --> 13:12.760 that do quite well in this specific filtering for this specific client. And yes, they do well across 13:12.760 --> 13:18.360 these but can you choose what waiting to give them? Because some might matter a lot more to them 13:18.360 --> 13:26.120 than others and that it's very difficult to put waiting to forks versus DDS. So we went in and we did 13:26.120 --> 13:30.600 a much more detailed analysis and these are the kinds of things I'd love to automate in the dashboard 13:30.600 --> 13:35.640 and if you've got ideas of how to do it, I'd love to find out test coverage. I'd like to find 13:35.640 --> 13:40.200 a way to automate accessing test coverage information because people publish their test coverage 13:40.200 --> 13:45.880 or store it in different ways depending on the language that things written in and other decisions. 13:46.120 --> 13:50.040 The quality of their documentation. I might get to a documentation it's a single page, 13:50.040 --> 13:54.360 this is how you install a good luck. So it looks like they've got documentation but actually they 13:54.360 --> 13:59.640 don't. So that requires some manual stuff. Where can you get community supports? Where can you get 13:59.640 --> 14:04.280 data? We've had a lot of our energy modeling tools and the fact that you need reference data. 14:04.280 --> 14:07.800 If you can get a tool but you don't get any data with it when you wait to access the data 14:07.800 --> 14:12.520 or link it to that tool, that tool is functionally useless to a lot of energy system operators. 14:12.520 --> 14:17.320 So reference databases for tools, other tools that can link into it really easily seamlessly 14:17.320 --> 14:23.640 is really important, etc. So we can go through this process of shortlisting through this and we 14:23.640 --> 14:29.560 did this with them to shortlist to about three or four and that was really good and they found 14:29.560 --> 14:35.800 it really useful to have this sort of verifiable way to how do you shortlist tools so that they 14:35.800 --> 14:40.040 can then go back to their higher ups and say this is why we want to go open source and this is 14:40.040 --> 14:49.480 how we're going to do it and this is why we're choosing this tool. But we need to dig deeper because 14:49.480 --> 14:55.000 we just heard earlier about pipes so it's stochastic optimization. If you asked about pipes 14:55.000 --> 14:59.480 and you want to stochastic optimization six months ago the answer would have been it's not 14:59.480 --> 15:03.720 the tool for you but you wouldn't know that from any of these metrics, right? So we need to dig 15:03.720 --> 15:09.240 deeper into this and look at other features and we went with a proprietary tool feature set 15:09.240 --> 15:14.200 I won't tell you which one because I don't want to get into legal ramifications of it and 15:14.200 --> 15:19.720 looked at what are the features that proprietary open, proprietary energy system modeling tools have? 15:20.760 --> 15:25.720 Theme to them, don't have to remember all this now it's all available in the GitHub repository 15:27.000 --> 15:32.360 grouped them and then created a variety of features. So basically a feature taxonomy of energy 15:32.360 --> 15:38.200 system modeling tools but at one that isn't too technical it needs to be really understandable to 15:38.200 --> 15:42.840 potential users who as I said aren't super technical they just they know they want to achieve 15:42.840 --> 15:46.600 a certain task but they wouldn't necessarily know the technical words what that might be. 15:48.600 --> 15:54.120 That brought us on to a new dashboard dashboard you will probably tell if you go to any of these 15:54.120 --> 15:58.040 are not a front-end developer and actually I've seen a lot of stream that apps today in this room 15:58.040 --> 16:02.440 so I'm guessing that most of the stream are not front-end developers but it does the job and these 16:02.520 --> 16:09.640 are all prototypes and aim to be production ready and this is very similar to actually going to be 16:09.640 --> 16:16.920 an extension of the other page in which it's own page that you can go in you've got your tools here 16:16.920 --> 16:22.840 and then you've got specifically what are the features they've got grouped and most importantly 16:22.840 --> 16:27.080 on this is what you're not going to get that easily in any of these review papers there are 16:27.080 --> 16:33.240 effications of that feature existing all of these little superscript are a link to a page in 16:33.240 --> 16:39.000 their documentation or their source code their tests that proves that particular feature exists 16:39.000 --> 16:44.600 but also help you understand how you activate that feature in that tool if you want to and whether 16:44.600 --> 16:48.840 something's in development rather than so this one here whether it's in development rather than 16:48.840 --> 16:55.640 actually ready. You can use it to also filter it based on the use case you've got and I'm not going 16:55.640 --> 17:01.640 to go into this detail because clearly I won't have enough time to do so but you could say okay 17:01.640 --> 17:07.800 I'm running an integrated resource plan which is usually what is done in the US bit in particular 17:07.800 --> 17:12.920 to make high-level decisions on the future asset capacities that you want and we've gone through 17:12.920 --> 17:18.760 and relatively with some degree of subjectivity we've gone through and said what are the features 17:18.760 --> 17:23.000 needed by this and this is a filter view of those features and then you can look at your tools and 17:23.000 --> 17:29.480 say okay which ones meet those features the best. You can do that side by side specifically on 17:29.480 --> 17:34.040 use cases so you could look at all of these and you could say okay look at it for pipes 17:34.040 --> 17:38.920 uh how is pipes are doing for all of these uh next which other so you look for a single tool 17:38.920 --> 17:44.280 but you look across all the use cases and finally you could look and you could write your own 17:44.280 --> 17:48.360 use cases so you could say okay here's all of the options uh give you a little of a tool 17:48.360 --> 17:53.960 tip as to what we mean by it uh click all of the things you're interested in uh save it I'll just 17:53.960 --> 18:05.160 click a couple more uh save it and then you can go back um that's saved I think uh and then I can 18:05.160 --> 18:11.240 go back to the use case comparison and I can look at it in that context uh or I can look at 18:11.240 --> 18:16.440 the tools comparison I can look at it in uh in that context as well so I can look at my 18:16.520 --> 18:23.000 custom use case and look at it in that context so it's a way for you to be able to and I can see here 18:23.000 --> 18:28.040 you I actually here I can't scroll down so it's clearly a problem there um but it's a way for you 18:28.040 --> 18:33.320 to be able to um discuss with others what are the features we need for our tool and therefore 18:33.320 --> 18:38.840 what are the tools that are most appropriate this is a manual task right it requires the developers 18:38.840 --> 18:43.640 usually themselves to contribute to this so that's why you only see four tools and hoping to see tomorrow 18:43.720 --> 18:49.000 very good on here right yeah uh as soon we'll be here shortly afterwards and then uh I'm sure 18:49.000 --> 18:54.600 that uh gems pie will be here soon too and the value of adding your tool to this is the fact that 18:54.600 --> 18:59.960 then it will be used in the decision making process by energy system operators because we will 18:59.960 --> 19:04.760 be showing them this dashboard right we won't be filtering it for pipes so that's uh it will be 19:04.760 --> 19:09.240 showing it to them vanilla so get it up there as quick as you can 19:10.120 --> 19:17.800 this is a little bit uh what it looks like inside the the feature set so you've got just a simple 19:17.800 --> 19:26.680 animal config um we we took sort of some inspiration from con de forge as to uh feedstock maintainers 19:26.680 --> 19:31.560 so you've got maintainers of these lists they don't have to be the developers of the tool 19:31.560 --> 19:36.360 but you've got maintainers of the list and they will be always tagged if there's some need for them 19:36.360 --> 19:42.520 to do anything uh we've got version schema for all of these so you could have different features 19:42.520 --> 19:48.760 uh feature lists that are tied to different version schemas um and uh this is where i said you've 19:48.760 --> 19:53.960 got these sort of source sources uh to the specific use cases and those will be checked in review 19:55.320 --> 20:00.200 and then similarly for use cases uh the the only addition is that we've got a list of the assumptions 20:00.280 --> 20:09.800 that go into that subjective use case list uh so where are we going uh we want community engagement 20:09.800 --> 20:14.520 that's why i'm here today uh and we want to improve UI and UX we'll probably get a front 20:14.520 --> 20:19.880 end developer to actually look at this and and hopefully don't scream uh we want to add new insights 20:19.880 --> 20:25.720 we want to add things like what are the academic and ideally non academic uses uh for these tools 20:26.280 --> 20:31.720 we're going to rely quite a lot on ecosystems for that and open Alex uh we want longer term download 20:31.720 --> 20:39.000 stats in the last 12 months uh pie pie and anaconda uh and Julia uh there were 3 million downloads 20:39.000 --> 20:45.000 that weren't CI related downloads of all of these 200 tools so last year 3 million downloads across 20:45.000 --> 20:49.880 all of those tools there's not capturing all of them because we're only capturing really Python uh so 20:49.880 --> 20:54.440 we're missing quite a lot to want to get more analysis on that and we're going to rely on ecosystems as 20:54.440 --> 21:01.560 well for um security analyses of dependencies because energy system operators want to be uh 21:01.560 --> 21:07.000 certain about the security of these tools that they're using uh we're going to be doing that variety 21:07.000 --> 21:11.480 ways over the next sort of six months or so so really if you want to get involved get involved soon 21:11.480 --> 21:16.760 and looking at UI improvements we really want to refine this taxonomy make sure it's useful 21:16.760 --> 21:22.360 to everyone useful to developers so they understand what they're missing and useful to um 21:22.920 --> 21:27.240 useful to users so they understand what they need and what they can get from the tools that they're using 21:28.440 --> 21:34.680 just as a sort of a case in point of of how we use this uh so the this this sort of feature gap 21:34.680 --> 21:41.000 analysis that we've got uh here with the we've worked with the pipes a team to look at all 21:41.000 --> 21:49.320 of these things that are missing created a a roadmap on GitHub with issues which if all closed 21:49.320 --> 21:54.200 will close this gap between pipes and uh probably the leading proprietary tool for energy 21:54.200 --> 21:59.080 system modeling so you can go through this process by doing this yourself you can say well what 21:59.080 --> 22:04.200 am I missing was it's what proprietary tools can do and create a roadmap for yourselves uh to be 22:04.200 --> 22:13.560 able to close that great so that is me done these and the two um dashboards but also the 22:13.560 --> 22:18.520 two GitHub repositories associated with them and as I say this was done and with a lot of 22:18.520 --> 22:23.640 ultimately financial but also um inspiration support from breakthrough energy uh that's what she's 22:23.640 --> 22:29.640 this project thank you very much 22:33.000 --> 22:36.680 team and it's right rapid fire 22:37.320 --> 22:47.480 uh there will be tools that do lower medium voltage yes definitely uh but these these are generic 22:47.480 --> 22:52.840 tools right so for the most part low medium voltage is a data problem not a tool problem really 22:52.840 --> 22:59.000 so it's more about how the modeling is done in terms of the tools so yes there are several that 22:59.160 --> 23:08.920 can do low and medium voltage that was the question yep yep yep yep yep we know the eo open source 23:08.920 --> 23:14.600 solutions can unlock and it could have been some integration that you make sure the tool is 23:14.600 --> 23:21.640 findable and it ends up that you'll and kind of log in. so do I know that eo opens or solution 23:21.640 --> 23:27.640 cataloging could there be some Synities there uh I do know of it um this is obviously global 23:27.640 --> 23:32.840 It's not just use specific in terms of its use cases, but yeah, we would want to 23:33.560 --> 23:39.840 Link to it, we should probably actually think about as an upstream inventory more than anything else so that we could potentially get more things from it 23:39.840 --> 23:42.440 That are index on it, but not in the other ones we've got 23:43.720 --> 23:47.880 At the moment we're not thinking of then downstreaming what we've got to other other places 23:50.760 --> 23:53.160 How did you feel throughout the CI related double? 23:54.120 --> 23:56.280 Piper has that automatically in a big query 23:57.160 --> 24:01.680 database, and that's the main one and it kind of doesn't but it's far fewer downloads than Piper 24:02.880 --> 24:05.680 And Julia does it automatically in terms of 24:06.600 --> 24:08.600 removing CI from downloads 24:17.880 --> 24:21.080 Yeah, would this help return on investment building open source? 24:21.080 --> 24:26.320 Yeah, I mean what I'm hoping it does is stop anyone from building a new open source and it's just a modeling tool 24:26.640 --> 24:30.280 Because that is probably the worst result on investment 24:30.640 --> 24:35.280 Yeah, it's already relevant now. We see that, but that might be just because of where we're getting the data from that 24:35.280 --> 24:37.280 We're not capturing the latest the newest ones 24:38.120 --> 24:45.080 We are hoping that people will use this to support the financially support tools based on choosing tools that look like them 24:45.080 --> 24:50.880 Sure enough to be worth supporting and that have strong organizations backing them in terms of working on them 24:50.880 --> 24:54.640 So we're hoping that people will look at this also from a financial backing perspective as well 24:54.840 --> 24:57.080 Not sure how they would work out return on investment 24:57.600 --> 25:00.920 Be able to keep take away is don't start developing a new tool now 25:04.000 --> 25:06.000 Cool, thank you very much