WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:11.600 And I would like to introduce my good friend, Björn Staschen, from Safe Social, who will give 00:11.600 --> 00:17.640 us some sure a barnstorming talk about saving the social web and internet from all kinds 00:17.640 --> 00:24.640 of people and things. 00:25.640 --> 00:27.640 You need to add these it. 00:33.640 --> 00:37.640 As I'm not a developer, I can't do these things. 00:37.640 --> 00:48.640 So again, this claimer, it might be a talk that developers like you might find not too much in 00:48.640 --> 00:55.140 depth because it is not about developing, because I am not a developer. 00:55.140 --> 01:03.860 But I still hope that I have some interesting thoughts, because to me, you are the developers, 01:03.860 --> 01:06.800 you are the guardians of the treasure. 01:06.800 --> 01:11.400 Out there, we heard a lot about it, poverty is growing, it's a poverty of freedom, 01:11.400 --> 01:15.640 of diversity, a poverty of choice of possibilities. 01:15.640 --> 01:22.840 Our societies are becoming poorer and poorer, so hatred, excitement, monopolies, fascist 01:22.840 --> 01:31.960 billionaires, but you hold a treasure from which our societies could benefit, a treasure 01:31.960 --> 01:37.360 that strengthens democracy and diversity that can make the world a better place and 01:37.360 --> 01:39.720 you are building it. 01:39.720 --> 01:47.600 This treasure has grown over many years, it's rich, it's diverse, silver, gold, precious stones, 01:47.600 --> 01:54.000 shining and sparkling with creativity and yet, these treasures that you build are still 01:54.000 --> 01:58.080 sleeping in a cave. 01:58.080 --> 02:04.920 Two few people know about them and let alone benefit from what you do. 02:04.920 --> 02:12.400 And for me, you have a choice, will you and will we be able to bring these treasures 02:12.400 --> 02:15.400 into the light? 02:15.400 --> 02:20.520 I'm not here as someone, as I said, who builds a run-se platform or who can program and 02:20.520 --> 02:27.840 code, but I'm here as a member of civil society and exactly that role almost exactly one 02:27.840 --> 02:32.880 year ago and Germany, together, for example, with Sasha who's sitting there taking pictures, 02:32.960 --> 02:40.000 Sasha first and possibly even others, we started a petition, 120 people from all walks 02:40.000 --> 02:46.640 of life called Safe Social and amongst the initiators are people like the hip-hop artist 02:46.640 --> 02:49.840 Yandilay, does anyone know Yandilay? 02:49.840 --> 02:55.480 Some do, that's good, with Benjamin Bellamy, it was about 7%. 02:55.480 --> 03:01.120 The author Nina Georg, the University of Graeme, the journalist, Union, the tech bloggers 03:01.200 --> 03:07.120 Sasha Palenberg, Greenpeace Germany, and we all together formulated 10 thesis to preserve 03:07.120 --> 03:13.200 the democratic power of social media by, on the one hand, putting the privileges of big 03:13.200 --> 03:14.480 tech to the test. 03:14.480 --> 03:20.080 You can see how we want to do that if you look up our website and on the other hand, 03:20.080 --> 03:23.800 by strengthening the open alternative networks. 03:23.800 --> 03:28.840 One, for us, does not work without the other, because as long as the kind of piece of 03:28.920 --> 03:35.400 monopolies block the light from everything growing below, none of these young plants that 03:35.400 --> 03:40.440 also you planted will ever grow strong, no matter how good they are. 03:40.440 --> 03:46.280 But we must now plant these seedlings and water them so that they are there when we bring 03:46.280 --> 03:54.520 down the monoliths, when those to take away the light are for whatever reason no longer suitable. 03:54.600 --> 03:59.800 If social, we want to contribute to this change, we want to help to build and not just 03:59.800 --> 04:04.600 demand, so we gather a quarter of a million supporters with our petition, which is quite 04:04.600 --> 04:08.360 a lot for a complicated petition. 04:08.360 --> 04:13.480 So a quarter of a people basically said, yes, we want what you build, we really like what 04:13.480 --> 04:18.920 you build, and we like the principles on what you build, we like the values, we support 04:18.920 --> 04:23.640 these values, a quarter of a million people in Germany, and we handed this over to politicians 04:23.720 --> 04:28.440 some of the pictures I don't know why are a little distorted, doesn't matter, and we found 04:28.440 --> 04:36.440 it a small non-profit, and in that capacity I'm standing here today, and I have great admiration 04:36.440 --> 04:41.800 for what you do and for what I've seen in the Fediverse and for what I use in the Fediverse. 04:42.600 --> 04:48.680 Over the past year, we have listened and spoken with many people, and on the one hand, 04:48.760 --> 04:57.080 there is a strong willingness to change, many fear the necessity to change, and they want to strengthen 04:57.080 --> 05:03.400 open networks. The executive board of German is governing party, the SPD, for example, has just 05:03.400 --> 05:09.640 adopted an official resolution stating like five six days ago stating, we also support the 05:09.640 --> 05:15.320 development of alternative public interest oriented social media and initiatives like Safe 05:15.400 --> 05:22.680 Social, which is nice for us. On the other hand though, there is still a lot of confusion, uncertainty 05:22.680 --> 05:33.320 perhaps even competition, about how exactly this change should happen. In Davos, W Social rises 05:33.320 --> 05:41.000 like a phoenix from the ashes, receiving massive, even positive attention, and yet it's merely 05:41.080 --> 05:47.560 a blue sky clone, some whisper about a vampire attack, so hacking into a network and maybe going 05:47.560 --> 05:55.480 away again. Euro sky is here with a lot of great energy and people, but also struggling to build 05:55.480 --> 06:03.560 an infrastructure with regard to financing, building a resilient infrastructure on the basis of 06:03.560 --> 06:13.080 80 protocols, immensely expensive, and the Fediverse, it is growing slowly, too slowly, some say, 06:13.080 --> 06:19.400 and it has had its chance, some politician tell us, so you try it, you failed, it doesn't work, 06:21.400 --> 06:27.480 it cannot scale enough, it doesn't meet the challenges that society is facing. 06:27.800 --> 06:37.800 So here you are, the treasures, the guardians of this treasure, and this may be not even a treasure 06:37.800 --> 06:44.760 after all, or do people out there simply not know enough about your treasure? Is it because 06:44.760 --> 06:54.040 the treasure is still not in the light? I think it's time to make a decision, and the time 06:54.120 --> 07:00.280 can not be better for this. From my point of view, this community here, and I'm grateful that 07:00.280 --> 07:06.360 we are in exchange, we must make that decision. What do we want the Fediverse to be? Do we want 07:06.360 --> 07:13.640 the Fediverse to grow? Do we want society to truly benefit from it, and do we want to be part of 07:13.640 --> 07:20.520 the change? So is this treasure a treasure that society as a whole can really benefit from from 07:20.600 --> 07:26.440 my perspective, and my hope, and everything that we've been doing in the last year, 07:26.440 --> 07:32.760 there can only be one answer. And if we decide that way, there are consequences. 07:34.600 --> 07:41.000 I've tried to summarize these consequences in 10 ceases, 10 ceases as a basis for a discussion, 07:41.000 --> 07:46.520 we should have, I do not have all the answers, and I'm certainly not right about everything, 07:47.240 --> 07:52.600 but as a starting point for a conversation, and maybe even provoking a thought here or there 07:54.120 --> 08:00.840 that may not be, may not be such a bad thing, excuse my English. So these 10 ceases I have, 08:00.840 --> 08:07.880 even even catch words. Number one is mission. We need as Fediverse, and as people in this room, 08:07.880 --> 08:14.600 we need a clear mission. Why are we doing this? The Fediverse is not about technology for its own 08:14.680 --> 08:21.480 sake, or is it? No. It is about design, by values, about doing things better, 08:21.480 --> 08:29.560 differently from big tech. But what exactly does that mean? Do we want growth? How do we finance 08:29.560 --> 08:36.120 growth, the growth of a scaled Fediverse, and to open one Pandora's box, it has been opened 08:36.120 --> 08:42.440 before in questions and answer. What about advertising? For example, some say no, 08:43.160 --> 08:47.560 let's keep this free of commercial interest, others say, but how can this be a social 08:47.560 --> 08:53.160 web for everyone, if the coffee shop around the corner can't advertise, and even these small 08:53.160 --> 08:59.000 business are looking for possibilities to advertise far away from big tech. So we have to discuss 08:59.000 --> 09:05.480 these questions. The charm of the Fediverse, the multitude of service allows for different pathways, 09:05.560 --> 09:18.040 though there is still one mission that unites us. Second, we need to do this together. If 09:18.040 --> 09:25.320 our mission is to strengthen democracy, then we can only do that together with the society out there 09:25.320 --> 09:35.240 that represents democracy. We need a kind of mandate from this society. They need to say 09:35.240 --> 09:41.480 to us, yes, build this for us, and we need a kind of contract, build it, according to these 09:41.480 --> 09:47.800 principles, these values, and for that, in my opinion, we must engage in dialogue much more with 09:47.800 --> 09:54.440 this society out there that needs what you build, but it needs a contract. So this society to 09:54.440 --> 10:03.320 actually tell you what to build and how to build it. Number three is, we need allies in order to 10:03.320 --> 10:12.600 be able to talk to society. We have to talk to the people who represent society. We have to build 10:12.600 --> 10:19.160 bridges to all sectors of society, to trade unions, to associations, to universities, to companies, 10:19.160 --> 10:27.240 to employers, whoever's out there, musicians, we should get kind of well-known celebrities 10:27.240 --> 10:34.200 into the Fediverse more than today, because if they come, others will follow. We need to turn 10:34.200 --> 10:41.000 them into advocates for our project, and this work in my eyes is as important as writing 10:41.560 --> 10:47.400 good code, it's something like the social code for the social web. That is something that 10:47.400 --> 10:52.680 safe social offers to do, so we try to bring over communities and other do that as well, 10:52.840 --> 11:01.080 and to build networks with them on the code that you wrote. By the way, this is one vehicle 11:01.080 --> 11:06.760 to talking with society. Donut, if you've heard of the Japanese day, has anyone? 11:07.800 --> 11:13.160 Well, that's more than 7% really nice. We started there together with chaos, computer club, 11:13.160 --> 11:20.840 and a lot of other organizations in Germany, and now we are more than 60 organizations to 11:20.920 --> 11:29.080 moral, great timing, is the second digital independence day with more than 100 events across Germany, 11:29.080 --> 11:34.520 and also one in Portugal, so we want to go at least you're required, and if you want to take 11:34.520 --> 11:41.000 part in the digital independence day and ask people to change for one service every Sunday, 11:41.000 --> 11:47.800 every first Sunday, per month, talk to us. We're happy to bond with you. But that was my little 11:47.800 --> 11:57.080 advertising block back to the mission. Number four, why are we doing it? We need to frame the strategy 11:57.080 --> 12:05.960 around a clear democratic and social purpose, and not just technical openness. Our story is why we are 12:05.960 --> 12:15.000 doing it. And if this is our story, the why is decisive, the how follows the why. And sometimes we do 12:15.000 --> 12:21.000 need even, we do not need to explain the how, the why matters to the people out there. 12:24.600 --> 12:29.160 Assume that most people are not protocol expert, I'm not one, and most people 12:30.680 --> 12:38.280 make decisions not based on protocols. Decentralization, for example, is not a user need, 12:39.000 --> 12:44.600 but a discrucial for resilience and trust. I wonder how many are that truly understand why 12:44.680 --> 12:50.200 decentralization is in advantage and why open source and open protocols are better than matter. 12:51.720 --> 13:00.360 So decentralization is a construction plan, but what is the result? What is the benefit that society 13:00.360 --> 13:06.600 gets out of it? We have to address these user needs, I think, and we need to communicate those 13:06.680 --> 13:17.880 benefits far more clearly and not merely the construction plans. Talking about construction plans, 13:18.520 --> 13:29.560 this is Lego, a lighthouse. Because based on this strategy, we must build lighthouse projects. 13:29.560 --> 13:35.240 We need to develop with communities, and we have to treat communities as co-designers, 13:35.240 --> 13:42.840 moving from really getting feedback to sharing authorship, concrete use cases that show 13:42.840 --> 13:50.280 this works. So we can show other people this works at a university with a local community, 13:50.280 --> 13:57.640 whatever, with writers. We as a social are talking to the vocational association of photographers, 13:57.640 --> 14:03.880 can we bring all of you over to Pixifet. So we need these lighthouses, these good examples, 14:04.040 --> 14:11.240 and we need you to make these lighthouses work together with us. We should frame strategies 14:11.240 --> 14:17.080 around stories and around lived experiences and not just technical roadmaps and we should find the 14:17.080 --> 14:23.240 communities that our technology so far doesn't cater for. So we need to build it for the ones 14:23.240 --> 14:29.720 that don't know from us. We try to be such a hinge into society and I think we need to think about 14:29.800 --> 14:34.360 more of these hinges. And maybe if you go into your projects, think about 14:34.360 --> 14:39.080 can I build it with a community and can I take the input from the community to build it. 14:41.320 --> 14:47.720 Number seven, and then we're nearly done. Featherers, please keep your promise. I've been 14:47.720 --> 14:57.080 walking around for a year now, using this promise that also Benjamin Bellamy just must again, 14:57.160 --> 15:02.520 the connectiveness of the different services. So you can be a friend of micro blogging and you 15:02.520 --> 15:10.440 use MasterDone, but still follow the people who post their great pictures on Pixifet, for example, 15:10.440 --> 15:18.520 or great videos on peer-tube. And we promote this wonderful mechanism, but anyone who looks closely 15:20.440 --> 15:26.440 may get the impression that apart from MasterDone, none of the services are sufficiently used, 15:26.520 --> 15:32.520 some are not even stable enough yet. If we believe that the Fediveras as a whole and 15:32.520 --> 15:39.400 interoperability via activity pub is a strong argument and I find it wonderful. It's a great 15:39.400 --> 15:47.480 argument, but if we agree on that argument, then we must make it work in practice. We need to be able 15:47.480 --> 15:53.720 to rely on recommending a good product. For example, when setting up this Pixifet server for 15:53.800 --> 15:58.200 professional photographers, there are people wanting me, there are so many issues it might not be 15:58.200 --> 16:07.480 stable enough. So if we can all kind of jointly strengthen this whole Fediveras, I think we strengthen 16:07.480 --> 16:16.840 a great idea and the great advantage from meta and all the others, but it needs to work. 16:16.840 --> 16:23.160 It needs to be visibly more than MasterDone and also in numbers, it needs to be more than MasterDone. 16:23.800 --> 16:35.240 Number 8. Bridges, in my opinion, strengthen both sides and we must actively work to connect 16:35.240 --> 16:41.720 systems that are built on roughly the same values. I really love what Matias is doing with 16:41.720 --> 16:47.240 WordPress because it's bringing over so much content into the Fediveras and I'm still looking 16:47.240 --> 16:54.440 kind of for the great big blogger who is using the plugin. And I also, I don't know if you 16:54.440 --> 16:59.400 saw that a famous tech blogger, though, in German, Sacha Palenberg, who knows Sacha Palenberg? 17:00.600 --> 17:06.200 Well, that's again, the 7% only. He just moved his video over to a peer-tube instance. So follow 17:06.200 --> 17:12.920 him there. The more connected and ecosystem becomes with others, the more visible the 17:12.920 --> 17:19.560 stronger it is in my opinion, despite the diversity of its actors. And as a decentralized network, 17:19.560 --> 17:24.840 we know this well, the Fediveras allows and fastest diversity and building bridges to other 17:25.560 --> 17:31.640 services on the internet and reaching out to others is written into our very DNA. So let's embrace 17:31.640 --> 17:38.120 this and live up to the standards. And for me, this also means building bridges towards 80 17:38.200 --> 17:47.640 protocols is a kind of value-based and good. We need a multi-layer approach. We should separate 17:47.640 --> 17:52.920 processes and ask who can do what particularly well. From my perspective, there are three levels 17:52.920 --> 17:59.080 at least. One is the technical development, but many of you do the coding driven by 17:59.640 --> 18:07.400 two building projects with communities, layer two. So user needs kind of and feed them into what 18:07.480 --> 18:13.160 you are doing. And number three is the area of lobbying governance, funding, regulatory, 18:13.160 --> 18:19.160 support, media literacy. Sandra is giving a great talk about that in the afternoon, so don't miss 18:19.160 --> 18:25.800 it. And it makes sense to act in these different roles and to negotiate conflicts even between 18:25.800 --> 18:31.400 these roles, but also to be clear about these roles. And that will simplify things in some cases. 18:31.960 --> 18:38.120 And one example for that, and that is the one that is last so we can discuss about it, 18:38.120 --> 18:43.960 because I'm sure someone will throw something at me for this, is this 10. 18:48.200 --> 18:58.200 So everyone laughed as above 45, I guess. These are decisive weeks and months. We are not alone. 18:58.200 --> 19:05.240 W. Social, Blue Sky, Euras Sky, and others emerge. Some will vanish as fast as they rose, 19:05.240 --> 19:13.560 but no one out there understands it when we fight protocol wars in public. Like the Deity and 19:13.560 --> 19:18.760 People's Front, versus the People's Front of Future Deal, who knows that from some of you. Yeah, 19:18.760 --> 19:24.440 very good. That's like 25%. So look, look, look the movie. It's worth life of Brian 19:25.160 --> 19:36.200 by the famous English Monty Python group. We may be convinced that we have the best solution. 19:36.200 --> 19:43.560 And after a year, I am convinced that Fediveras and Activity Pop are a very, very good solution. 19:46.760 --> 19:51.960 And there may be good reasons to criticize other protocols, for example, 80 pro-to. 19:52.760 --> 20:00.120 But the open networks aligns that Sandra Form, who's talking this afternoon, and it's a socialist 20:00.120 --> 20:05.960 part of, is a great starting point. In my view, it is right to stand together with those who share our 20:05.960 --> 20:12.760 goals, who share common values, even if they believe in different pathways or protocols. That 20:12.760 --> 20:19.080 was requires transparency, it requires clarity, fair dealing, and multi-layer approach, he 20:19.880 --> 20:25.880 means we develop our products with energy and commitment. And on that basis, we build with communities, 20:25.880 --> 20:32.600 but on policy issues, we can, and we should work together in order to strengthen this ecosystem 20:33.320 --> 20:38.200 all over Europe. I do not think that we stand a chance if we don't try that. 20:38.840 --> 20:52.840 So to give away a treasure and to let loose, it takes a little braveness and a little pragmatism 20:52.840 --> 21:00.840 and also generosity. But if we truly want to break down silos and bring the open social 21:00.920 --> 21:08.120 web to everyone, like Tim Berners-Lee said, it's for everyone, the web. And if we want to ensure 21:08.920 --> 21:15.960 that what you build really serves everyone as a democratic, accessible and resilient foundation 21:17.000 --> 21:25.960 for our digital societies in the future, I do not think that we have a choice to make compromises 21:26.920 --> 21:33.560 to always kind of struggle for the best ways that we go together, but to give this treasure 21:33.560 --> 21:41.000 some more light and to think about the past ways to get this treasure out there into the open. 21:41.640 --> 21:46.760 So it is truly a social web for everyone. Thanks a lot. 21:55.960 --> 22:09.000 I was about to ask if anybody has questions for Björn, but I'm willing to do that. 22:09.000 --> 22:12.680 Would folks who are standing along the wall, could you kind of try and find a seat? And if folks 22:12.680 --> 22:17.240 could move along, if they're not going to be leaving immediately after the tour, that'll be great. 22:17.800 --> 22:25.240 And here's a question. First of all, thank Björn. We try to meddle ice in homework. 22:25.240 --> 22:30.280 How could we finally meet here at least? Yes, I couldn't be in Berlin in the 30th day. 22:30.280 --> 22:34.680 We've got the coffee here now. Yeah, first of all, thank you for the work of Save Social. 22:34.680 --> 22:39.000 For me, it's just amazing. I'm leaving Germany and I see the movement, like this signature, 22:39.000 --> 22:45.560 it's just amazing. And you say the question, why? And for me, and you tackled, 22:47.400 --> 22:51.080 I say, share my opinion and the Save for Greece. It's about democracy. 22:51.880 --> 22:58.040 The big tech social media is trying to undermine democracy. And what we're trying to do when 22:58.040 --> 23:06.520 contact politicians, this is from a key strategy to try to bring a quarrel to keep people in the 23:06.520 --> 23:14.600 Fediverse. Because I'm trying to talk to artists and they need this thousands of followers that we 23:14.680 --> 23:21.560 still don't have in the Fed and so on. So my question is, how can we tackle other groups? 23:21.560 --> 23:28.120 And do they agree that a strategic player here are the politicians, because they shouldn't be 23:28.120 --> 23:32.280 in the social media that they're trying to undermine democracy. And it's pretty obvious. 23:32.280 --> 23:37.000 For me, it's politicians, but also the media. And yes, in the evening, we said at the table and 23:37.000 --> 23:42.520 talked about the social media share buttons. And we said, what about the campaign to get rid of all 23:42.600 --> 23:49.720 the social media, like all the X share buttons at Target show, at BBC, and all the websites? 23:49.720 --> 23:55.000 It would be a big step forward, but then we noticed there is no good mustard on share button. 23:56.760 --> 24:01.400 So I think we really need a good mustard on share button. Yes, please. 24:02.680 --> 24:07.400 And I think that's that's an argument. We started another petition in Germany and that got 24:07.400 --> 24:13.000 160,000 signatures for the Bundeskanzer to finally leave X and the Bundesregier and to finally leave 24:13.000 --> 24:18.920 X here are aware of that. And they answered us, no, we will not do that at the moment. And we are 24:18.920 --> 24:25.240 now looking into other ways. Other even legal ways to make them use the open social web. So can they 24:25.240 --> 24:32.360 kind of make me use X if I want to read exclusively what the chancellor says and can they make 24:32.360 --> 24:37.080 me kind of give away my data just to read what he says? So we're looking into that as well. 24:37.080 --> 24:41.800 And I think we kind of need a approach from everywhere, even compact, who are on our side, 24:41.800 --> 24:47.240 don't have the mustard on share button. We have built a share button, we just haven't 24:47.240 --> 24:54.040 published it properly yet, so that's in process. Sorry, sorry, I've been trying, I did my 24:54.040 --> 24:58.040 bit when I spoke on behalf of the mustard only, I'm here for the favors. Again, I'm trying 24:58.040 --> 25:02.440 to be living a world here, and all the worlds, but yeah, if you go ask Eugene on the ask 25:02.440 --> 25:07.480 booth and ask him to publish it, then we'll be there. Sorry, we have another question. 25:07.480 --> 25:12.120 I think there could be a game changer. If the share button is there, let's connect it with 25:12.120 --> 25:20.600 the campaign for everyone to use it. There's another question over here. Hi, thank you very much for 25:20.600 --> 25:26.600 your talk, I'm Errol. So I've done a lot of work in the human rights open source software space 25:26.600 --> 25:31.400 about people that get de-platformed from the current social media platforms, which tend to be the 25:31.400 --> 25:37.400 most marginalized communities of people, including people that are making explicit content and 25:37.400 --> 25:41.640 adult content online. I'm really curious to hear your thoughts and views and whether you work 25:41.640 --> 25:47.720 with those communities and how you see the very first supporting people that do very legitimate 25:47.720 --> 25:55.240 sex work online. Well, there's a big question, and I hadn't thought enough about it 25:55.960 --> 26:03.000 and that particular community. As far as I understand the Fedivers, it's great advantage 26:03.000 --> 26:09.480 is that a community can first of all cater for its own server, decide on its own rules, 26:10.440 --> 26:17.160 and also decide on how much it wants to connect with other service and stuff. So I think one 26:17.160 --> 26:24.840 great thing is that this Fedivers kind of protects communities and up to a certain standard allows 26:25.560 --> 26:32.040 communities to kind of be particular. And I think that is a great advantage. 26:34.280 --> 26:40.680 I think we all need to connect with as many communities as we can in order to build and even 26:40.680 --> 26:48.280 that is the community that I think we all kind of should build with, if I don't know if you have a 26:48.280 --> 26:55.400 server now or not. But I mean, that is the advantage and let's kind of take these advantages and 26:55.400 --> 27:03.080 kind of make them visible. That doesn't really answer your question. But yes. 27:04.280 --> 27:08.200 One more question in the middle and then we shall switch our part of schedule again. 27:09.480 --> 27:11.480 Excuse me, are you running over? Thank you. 27:11.720 --> 27:18.840 Thank you. I'm sorry that I'm sitting here. I'm from Germany too. And I feel that the 27:18.840 --> 27:24.680 thing that the woman over there just said is absolutely crucial because if we have different 27:24.680 --> 27:33.320 communities who shall share this technology, there could be, there could be a legit reasons for certain 27:33.320 --> 27:39.560 communities to be separated from others. For example, for kindergarten children, I think you do 27:39.640 --> 27:50.360 not want to have an otherwise sexual content. Do you feel that schemes could be established 27:50.360 --> 27:58.200 to implement such separations, such communities due to these reasons? And do you feel that this 27:58.200 --> 28:09.480 could be done in a way which does not remove the idea of having something that can be 28:09.800 --> 28:15.960 used by everyone freely and with free content? Because this is one of the reasons I think which 28:15.960 --> 28:27.640 the big, big, big players try to use as argument against such very free platforms as 28:27.640 --> 28:34.040 Macedon and the very first general. Thank you. Well, I mean, there's always one argument that says 28:34.120 --> 28:42.120 with all these different servers, you kind of play to the fragmentation of society. So I think 28:42.120 --> 28:46.760 it isn't argument to keep in the back of our head if we're talking to people and if we say we are 28:46.760 --> 28:51.640 building a social web. I mean, there are technical possibilities with regard to kind of 28:52.520 --> 28:59.720 not connecting to every server. We have the block lists, for example. So I think it is something 28:59.800 --> 29:05.240 for each community to decide on. I mean, that is the strength. I mean, governance starts 29:05.240 --> 29:12.600 within a community that is running a server, whom do we connect to and whom do we want connected 29:12.600 --> 29:21.400 with us? And I strongly believe that there is a need for connection across society. So I 29:21.400 --> 29:28.200 still believe that there will be an open web. But that is a thesis. I don't know if it'll 29:28.200 --> 29:35.560 play out like that really. We see some project starting and deciding also with regard to the 29:35.560 --> 29:41.400 experiences on matters platforms. Like there is a community on the outskirts of Hamburg that we are 29:41.400 --> 29:47.880 kind of in the process of maybe building a server with them. And they decided quite early, 29:47.880 --> 29:52.680 we will not connect with the rest of the world for the beginning. Because we're tired of all the 29:52.680 --> 29:57.880 stuff that we read and we want to concentrate on what's here in our little community. And 29:58.360 --> 30:03.480 if that is a solution for a social platform, from fine as well, the case is a different need. 30:03.480 --> 30:07.080 So I don't know, but there are the mechanisms that we can use, right? 30:09.160 --> 30:13.960 So tomorrow is digital independence day again. So make sure to share that with your friends and 30:13.960 --> 30:19.960 encourage folks to try these new platforms, get themselves off of big tech platforms. 30:21.400 --> 30:27.800 There we are exactly. I'm so sorry for I know there's some other hands up. As with all things 30:28.760 --> 30:35.080 the corridor track where you can find folks and ask questions afterwards is really great. 30:35.080 --> 30:39.800 We're very keen to keep ourselves moving forward here today. So be on thank you so much.